Fame LvLs 1-10

[Valance]

Fame isn't a background in F&F, and in DE the chart is surprisingly unhelpful for non US games. Can we get a fame chart for this game? Bellow, my interpretation of the DE fame chart given our game area.

Fame 1 Nothing, just something you have to buy
Fame 2 Still nothing
Fame 3 Something larger then a county but smaller then the entire country
Fame 4 Bigger then fame 3, but smaller then fame 5
Fame 5 All of Great Brittan.

Actual DE fame chart (with comments)

Fame 1 Local scene (Isn't that what my influence should be effecting by default?)
Fame 2 City (As apposed to...)
Fame 3 State (not a political unit at this point in English history, maybe it means all of England but not including the Scotish low lands Normandy or Wales?)
Fame 4 Adjoining States (Maybe England, Scotland and Wales?)
Fame 5 Entire Country (England, Scotland, Wales, and Normandy?)
Fame 6???
Fame 7???
Fame 8???
Fame 9???
Fame 10 This and every other world conceivable for humans to travel to.

[Giric]

I feel like fame 2 shouldn't be worthless, and perhaps could be counted as Yorkshire. (since we don't have cities the way we think of them in modern nights)

Fame 3 could include most of upper england, to the scottish border, to the wales border, but not many of the southern parts of england.

Fame 5 perhaps might include france, the norselands, and areas directly across the water from england.

Fame 6 might include much of the known world at this point, such as along the Mediterranean, germany, etc.

Fame 7-9 aren't attainable by players currently, but conceivably would spread out further.

[Guest]

I've been waiting for this conversation to start. I don't think Fame makes much sense in the Dark Ages, that is what Nobility is for. Your average person knows people in his own village or district of city, and maybe 2 or 3 people from another, but most can name a few Nobles (if only to tell a story about Sir Geoffrey from Tadcaster Keep beating his brother-in-law in the street for splashing him with mud from a horse).

In my inpinion we should scrap it entirely and define the reach of your influences by your level of Nobility, and backgrounds by Network.

[Guest]

*opinion

[Giric]

Interesting, but there are many people who would then have extended reach because of their position. As you say nobles are an easy example, but also those of high church rank, or those with standing in a merchant guild, or those with standing in similar organizations.

Also many nobles lorded over their land and didn't need to make an effort to be well known. I would say being a noble is certainly an excuse to buy up fame, but isn't the same as fame.

As a good point, network is certainly an alternative to fame. By investing multiple points in the same 'area' you expand it, so effectively you are simulating fame in that way. The alternative of having it in multiple locations would likely not see much use if fame does not exist and influences do not extend across all of yorkshire.

[Simon Molendinarius]

You can be a famous lord or a non famous lord. You may know that there is a lord who rules in London, but you don't know it like you know of Vlad the Impaler. He was a famous lord. You knew of him, and you might hear of him from far off. Robin of Loxley, is an example of a famous 'person' who was not a lord. His deeds carried his name far and wide.

I agree that Fame is less common in the Dark Ages, but it still exists. Are you the Pirate Blackbeard or just a random pirate? Are you Bill Gates or Steve Wozniak? Both are major players in the computer industry, but Bill Gates is a household name and Wozniak is known only to nerds.

[UninvitedGuest]

I'm actually explaining this in the other thread in just a few minutes.

[Valance]

So... that still isn't a fame chart. We don't have an obvious State analog in Dark Ages England, and we don't have fame up to 10.

[Giric]

(can't we only get fame up to 6? NPCs aside)

[Sigfried Le Danois]

Fame is not only a tool to increase influences. It also is just plain old fame. That is all the lower levels should represent. How far you are recognized. Its not until you are recognized farther then influence normally travels that influence should be affected.

[Valance]

It's a non influence background. Phil has ruled that use influences actions can't be achieved, beyond lvl 7, but that things can be pooled up to 10.

[Sigfried Le Danois]

I dunno if fame can be pooled. I guess there us some precedent (modern music groups) but it also seems like one of those things you couldn't share.

[UninvitedGuest]

Those are some really good questions and points. I'll have to talk to the ST team before I make any further interpretations or write you any charts. Tonight I'n calculating Influence interactions and the getting you responses before session, so you may not get answers until after session.

[Giric]

Faith and fire has a list of what can be pooled. I do not believe fame is one it.

[Guest]

I thought these changes weren't in effect til January. When you said you were calculating influence interactions, you are using the old rules and interpretations to calculate them right? I'm sure I'm not the only one who's influence actions this month were fine based on the previous interpretations and completely incorrect now.

[Valance]

As Fame is not present in F&F, definitionaly there are no rules on weather it can be pooled or not. That said the suggestion in F&F is that 'backgrounds that lend themselves to joint ownership' can be pooled. The ST team, in the past, has ruled that Military Force, Naval Force, and Commerce, to name a few, are backgrounds that can be pooled. I think that it is more reasonable for fame to be poolable then not. If one famous person joins a group, it's known as the famous person's group. If many famous people are in a group, it gains fame itself, eg the Masons or the Illuminati. Historically agents of the East India company were not famous themselves, but because they acted for a powerful, connected, and well known corporation they could get things done in far flung parts of the world.

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